Discussion:
KDE Support in Debian
(too old to reply)
Scott
2009-11-10 13:28:04 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.

My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
--
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Scott
http://sgaming.ca

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Facundo A
2009-11-10 13:40:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Hi,
I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
Is better than Gnome :)


Facundo
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t***@googlemail.com
2009-11-10 13:50:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Hi,
I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
Hi Scott,

I share your feelings regarding Kubuntu, I use kde4 on Debian Squeeze
(current Testing) on my two home machines (one laptop and one desktop).
kde4 is well integrated in Debian, it feels like a first class citizen
and not a second choice. I feel like Debian as been careful in the way
it has put kde4 together, resulting in a very usable, and lately pretty
stable desktop (version 4.3.2 here).
I believe Lenny (stable) is coming with "old" kde 3.5.10, but there's a
possibility to use kde4 backported packages. For me Squeeze is working
fine, you have to be willing to file a few bug reports once in a while,
but on the laptop I tried Kubuntu (jaunty and early karmic), and Debian
Squeeze is MUCH more stable and usable.

About documentation, there is this list ;-) and the Debian kde team
website http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/ , and most of the doc floating
around the web is relevant for general handling of kde4.

Have fun.
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Richard Ibbotson
2009-11-10 14:00:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@googlemail.com
Post by Scott
I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu
to Debian. Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu.
The reason why I use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With
KDE) is that I don't like how it is more difficult to find help
specific to Kubuntu and also because Kubuntu is simply not as
well put together as Ubuntu. There is simply much more
development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.
I share your feelings regarding Kubuntu, I use kde4 on Debian
Squeeze (current Testing) on my two home machines (one laptop and
one desktop). kde4 is well integrated in Debian, it feels like a
first class citizen and not a second choice. I feel like Debian as
been careful in the way it has put kde4 together, resulting in a
very usable, and lately pretty stable desktop (version 4.3.2
here).
I'm running Squeeze on my own workstation with KDE 4.3.2 with Nividia
drivers. Works for me. I don't know how stable or unstable it's
supposed to be but it's good here. AMD64. Samsung flat screen 19"
monitor. My other workstation is Ubuntu Manic Koala.
--
Richard
www.sheflug.org.uk
http://sleepypenguin.homelinux.org
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Scott
2009-11-10 14:57:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@googlemail.com
Post by Scott
Hi,
I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
Hi Scott,
I share your feelings regarding Kubuntu, I use kde4 on Debian Squeeze
(current Testing) on my two home machines (one laptop and one desktop).
kde4 is well integrated in Debian, it feels like a first class citizen
and not a second choice. I feel like Debian as been careful in the way
it has put kde4 together, resulting in a very usable, and lately pretty
stable desktop (version 4.3.2 here).
I believe Lenny (stable) is coming with "old" kde 3.5.10, but there's a
possibility to use kde4 backported packages. For me Squeeze is working
fine, you have to be willing to file a few bug reports once in a while,
but on the laptop I tried Kubuntu (jaunty and early karmic), and Debian
Squeeze is MUCH more stable and usable.
About documentation, there is this list ;-) and the Debian kde team
website http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/ , and most of the doc floating
around the web is relevant for general handling of kde4.
Have fun.
--
Your friend,
Scott
http://sgaming.ca

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Scott
2009-11-10 15:11:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by t***@googlemail.com
I share your feelings regarding Kubuntu, I use kde4 on Debian Squeeze
(current Testing) on my two home machines
Testing is what I am thinking about trying out as I like having newer
software and don't mind the odd problem or bug.
Post by t***@googlemail.com
For me Squeeze is working
fine, you have to be willing to file a few bug reports once in a while,
I have no problem filing bug reports, I have already done that several
times on Ubuntu. I like adding my fair share by helping with bug testing.
--
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Scott
http://sgaming.ca

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Ferdinand Thommes
2009-11-10 15:45:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by t***@googlemail.com
I share your feelings regarding Kubuntu, I use kde4 on Debian Squeeze
(current Testing) on my two home machines
Testing is what I am thinking about trying out as I like having newer
software and don't mind the odd problem or bug.
you could also have a look at sidux on http://sidux.com
We use unstable as our base repo and our main desktop environment is KDE4

greetz
ferdi
Post by Scott
Post by t***@googlemail.com
For me Squeeze is working
fine, you have to be willing to file a few bug reports once in a while,
I have no problem filing bug reports, I have already done that several
times on Ubuntu. I like adding my fair share by helping with bug testing.
--
Ferdi Thommes
2.Vorsitzender
sidux e.V.
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Sune Vuorela
2009-11-10 16:13:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ferdinand Thommes
Post by Scott
Post by t***@googlemail.com
I share your feelings regarding Kubuntu, I use kde4 on Debian Squeeze
(current Testing) on my two home machines
Testing is what I am thinking about trying out as I like having newer
software and don't mind the odd problem or bug.
you could also have a look at sidux on http://sidux.com
We use unstable as our base repo and our main desktop environment is KDE4
--
Ferdi Thommes
2.Vorsitzender
sidux e.V.
Please don't use debian user support channels to try to hijack users to
your project.

/Sune
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Ferdinand Thommes
2009-11-10 16:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sune Vuorela
Post by Ferdinand Thommes
Post by Scott
Post by t***@googlemail.com
I share your feelings regarding Kubuntu, I use kde4 on Debian Squeeze
(current Testing) on my two home machines
Testing is what I am thinking about trying out as I like having newer
software and don't mind the odd problem or bug.
you could also have a look at sidux on http://sidux.com
We use unstable as our base repo and our main desktop environment is KDE4
Please don't use debian user support channels to try to hijack users to
your project.
not hijacking, me.
in the end its much closer to debian than what the threadstarter uses now.

greetz
ferdi
Post by Sune Vuorela
/Sune
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2.Vorsitzender
sidux e.V.
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Jesús M. Navarro
2009-11-10 21:07:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by t***@googlemail.com
I share your feelings regarding Kubuntu, I use kde4 on Debian Squeeze
(current Testing) on my two home machines
Testing is what I am thinking about trying out as I like having newer
software and don't mind the odd problem or bug.
Post by t***@googlemail.com
For me Squeeze is working
fine, you have to be willing to file a few bug reports once in a while,
I have no problem filing bug reports, I have already done that several
times on Ubuntu. I like adding my fair share by helping with bug testing.
Then you are the looked-for standard Debian Testing user.
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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
2009-11-10 21:37:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jesús M. Navarro
Post by Scott
I have no problem filing bug reports, I have already done that several
times on Ubuntu. I like adding my fair share by helping with bug testing.
Then you are the looked-for standard Debian Testing user.
W00t! More people correctly using testing! The next version of stable is
looking better all the time!
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Scott
2009-11-11 13:18:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
Post by Jesús M. Navarro
Post by Scott
I have no problem filing bug reports, I have already done that several
times on Ubuntu. I like adding my fair share by helping with bug testing.
Then you are the looked-for standard Debian Testing user.
W00t! More people correctly using testing! The next version of stable is
looking better all the time!
Thank you. It is great to feel wanted. :) Personally, I want to do
more than bug testing in the future. I am trying to learn enough of
programming to start actually doing a little coding someday.
--
Your friend,
Scott
http://sgaming.ca

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Jesús M. Navarro
2009-11-11 20:59:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Post by Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
Post by Jesús M. Navarro
Post by Scott
I have no problem filing bug reports, I have already done that several
times on Ubuntu. I like adding my fair share by helping with bug testing.
Then you are the looked-for standard Debian Testing user.
W00t! More people correctly using testing! The next version of stable
is looking better all the time!
Thank you. It is great to feel wanted. :)
Your feeling is well earned as your role as tester is quite a valious one.
Post by Scott
Personally, I want to do
more than bug testing in the future. I am trying to learn enough of
programming to start actually doing a little coding someday.
Then both you and the community will get benefit from you using Sid when you
feel ready (where the environment allows for it, maybe a "for-fun" machine or
a chrooted/virtualized environment where you can upgrade and test without
fear for the results).

While the focus on Testing is for the user to provide good quality bug
reports, Sid goes beyond that: it benefit the most when you can take the time
to dive into the technical details of those bugs that itch you most, maybe
narrowing the conditions where the bug appears, maybe having a look at the
sources to find what's wrong (which will certainly make you embetter your
coding abilities at a faster pace) or even, in the best cases, providing a
thought out patch or resolution for the problem at hand.
Post by Scott
Your friend,
Keep your enthusiasm.
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Nate Bargmann
2009-11-10 13:56:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
It seems as well supported as any other package. While there is a need
for limited Debian support, most of the support (documentation, forums,
etc.) come from upstream KDE resources. Note also that if you install
Debian Stable you will be installing KDE 3.5.9 which the upstream KDE
project considers deprecated. Fortunately it is very stable.

- Nate >>
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Allen
2009-11-14 15:26:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
I am using KDE right now on my Debian machine. I started using Debian a
lot more in the last few months because I was looking for something I
could easily upgrade without a CD since my CD / DVD drives seems to be
going on this machine, and so I was basically thinking "FreBSD, or
Debian... Well, I already have two machines with FreeBSD, I'll try this
new version of Debian out" and noce I got the Netnistall CD done, I
popped it in, and started up the installation. The machine has two HDs
in it. One is the 80 GB drive it came with which I use for XP because I
like UT and DooM and Quake (Which oddly enough I got working in Debian
in a very small amount of time anyway) and then a 160 GB drive I
installed which I gave Debian. I like KDE and Gnome both, and I use
whatever I feel like.

My set up on this machine is basically whatever I need. I have KDE
installed, Gnome, Enlightenment, Window Maker, FVWM, FVWM2, LXDE,
Afterstep, TWM, and I think a few more, but this is because sometimes I
want KDE (Like right now) sometimes I want Gnome, and sometimes I want
something that isn't so much of a desktop like Window Maker or
Enlightenment.

I've found Debian to be not only good, but it's gotten so good I made
this machine my main workstation. I use it for most of my email, web
surfing, and I use it for making music with LMMS which was easy to
install on Debian too, and now use it all the time every day. I still
have my FTP server running Slackware 12 because changing OSs on that is
a huge undertaking, and it works fine. I also still have an old machine
running Slackware 13.0 and Windows 98 SE (Because The Magic The
Gathering CD I have to play it on there only works in Windows 9X, it's
the original version that won't install on NTFS) and I have my Laptop
with XP and Slackware 13.0, and then my second workstation / PC with
FreeBSD 7.1 on it for email and also as a second FTP server for testing
stuff.

I don't like Ubuntu at all. The installation discs I had replaced my
Windows NT installation CD Coffee Cup Coasters. (Can't stain my desk!)
But if you're going to try Debian out, I think you'll like it. Ubuntu is
based on it except I think Debian is about 300 times better.

If you like KDE, just do this once you've got it installed:

apt-get update && apt-get install kde

I did that and a few minutes later I had KDE running. It works great and
unlike some distros who only have KDE as an option, Debian actually
looks and runs good on KDE. I don't use KDE4 because my machines are
dated now, but it does run OK too.

-Allen
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Kevin Krammer
2009-11-10 13:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi Scott,
Post by Scott
Hi,
I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian?
I can't judge the documentation since I didn't have any need for it yet, but
the packages are usually very stable (I'd actually go as far as saying
extraordinarily good :))
Post by Scott
I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
I don't think there is a default desktop in Debian. All variants, including
non desktop environment graphical system (e.g. advanced windowmanager only)
have the same level of integration, i.e. interaction with system features is
based on whatever the graphical upstream delivers.

For convenience there are several specialized install media which contain all
important packages for common choices, e.g. a GNOME install disk, a KDE
install disk and so on, as well as "basic" media like the Net install disk.

I am usually using the latter (netinst) since I would have to update after
installation anyway :)

Cheers,
Kevin
Dominik Schulz
2009-11-10 14:36:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
There are some things to argue about, like the missing network-manager applet
or integration of non-kde applications like iceweasel, eclipse, etc. but that
is not the fault of the debian project nor KDE, so yes: It is very well
supported.
--
Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best Regards
Dominik
Modestas Vainius
2009-11-10 15:25:33 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
Post by Dominik Schulz
Post by Scott
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
There are some things to argue about, like the missing network-manager applet
It is better nothing (which is arguable not true since there is something in
experimental) than a disaster snapshot which kubuntu shipped. It's not Debian
fault that upstream is not able to release.
--
Modestas Vainius <***@vainius.eu>
Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
2009-11-10 15:17:09 UTC
Permalink
Hi Scott,

I have been using Debian Testing with KDE since 4 years ago (Etch testing,
Lenny testing, Squeeze testing), and I have no issue about it at all. I am a
happy KDE user.

But once a while, some application might have bug, but it is easy to file
bug report, and soon enough the application will be fixed and work as
before.

If you really looking to use KDE, I would suggest that you migrate to Debian
:)

Thanks.
Post by Scott
Hi,
I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
--
Your friend,
Scott
http://sgaming.ca
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Jan De Luyck
2009-11-10 15:20:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Hi,
I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
I'm using KDE4 on my sid (unstable) workstation and laptop without any KDE-
related problems.

(Ofcourse, unstable being what it is, sometimes something breaks. But it adds
to the fun ;) )

Jan
--
Some circumstantial evidence is very strong, as when you find a trout in
the milk.
-- Thoreau
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Nate Bargmann
2009-11-10 21:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jan De Luyck
I'm using KDE4 on my sid (unstable) workstation and laptop without any KDE-
related problems.
This may be KDE or Debian related, but I know that on this T41 laptop I
cannot run full desktop effects with the latest Sid. I use the Radeon
Xorg driver and when I select desktop effects all of the Plasma related
stuff on the screen is corrupted. Meanwhile, I have Kubuntu 9.10
installed on another partition on this laptop and it absolutely rocks
with full desktop effects enabled--same hardware and Xorg driver.

I'm not sure if the reason is simply the 2.6.31 kernel in Kubuntu
versus the 2.6.30 kernel in Sid or if the Kubuntu kernel has been
compiled with desktop support and Debian's has not. Some time ago
after discussion on this list I filed a Debian bug wishlist report
asking for a Debian kernel with the desktop support enabled. It was
closed as "will not fix" so if that is the difference, then that puts
Debian at a disadvantage on the desktop.

Whatever the reason while I can live without desktop effects, which
even when they worked in Sid were terribly slow, until something comes
along that requires its availability.

- Nate >>
--
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds. The pessimist fears this is true."

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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
2009-11-10 21:45:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Bargmann
Post by Jan De Luyck
I'm using KDE4 on my sid (unstable) workstation and laptop without any
KDE- related problems.
This may be KDE or Debian related, but I know that on this T41 laptop I
cannot run full desktop effects with the latest Sid. I use the Radeon
Xorg driver and when I select desktop effects all of the Plasma related
stuff on the screen is corrupted. Meanwhile, I have Kubuntu 9.10
installed on another partition on this laptop and it absolutely rocks
with full desktop effects enabled--same hardware and Xorg driver.
Did you install the proper firmware package? The firmware is arguably non-
free, so it doesn't appear in Debian kernels. It may appear in Ubuntu kernels
because they take a different stance on such firmware.
Post by Nate Bargmann
I'm not sure if the reason is simply the 2.6.31 kernel in Kubuntu
versus the 2.6.30 kernel in Sid or if the Kubuntu kernel has been
compiled with desktop support and Debian's has not. Some time ago
after discussion on this list I filed a Debian bug wishlist report
asking for a Debian kernel with the desktop support enabled. It was
closed as "will not fix".
Yes, pending a formal vote, firmware without source code will not be added
back to the Debian kernel, and such firmware will be removed as bugs are filed
against it.

I agree with Debian's stance on the firmware issue. Others may not, even if
they are similarly concerned with software freedoms in general.
--
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Nate Bargmann
2009-11-10 21:58:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
Post by Nate Bargmann
Post by Jan De Luyck
I'm using KDE4 on my sid (unstable) workstation and laptop without any
KDE- related problems.
This may be KDE or Debian related, but I know that on this T41 laptop I
cannot run full desktop effects with the latest Sid. I use the Radeon
Xorg driver and when I select desktop effects all of the Plasma related
stuff on the screen is corrupted. Meanwhile, I have Kubuntu 9.10
installed on another partition on this laptop and it absolutely rocks
with full desktop effects enabled--same hardware and Xorg driver.
Did you install the proper firmware package? The firmware is arguably non-
free, so it doesn't appear in Debian kernels. It may appear in Ubuntu kernels
because they take a different stance on such firmware.
I think so as I have the firmware-linux package installed which pulled
in firmware-linux-free and firmware-linux-nonfree. Last I checked (it
was some time back) I think the Kubuntu installation has similar
packages installed.
Post by Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
Post by Nate Bargmann
I'm not sure if the reason is simply the 2.6.31 kernel in Kubuntu
versus the 2.6.30 kernel in Sid or if the Kubuntu kernel has been
compiled with desktop support and Debian's has not. Some time ago
after discussion on this list I filed a Debian bug wishlist report
asking for a Debian kernel with the desktop support enabled. It was
closed as "will not fix".
Yes, pending a formal vote, firmware without source code will not be added
back to the Debian kernel, and such firmware will be removed as bugs are filed
against it.
Apples and oranges. I did not ask for firmware, in fact this was
before certain firmware was placed into non-free as I recall.
Searching I came up with:

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=375845

as the report. The actual closing report was that activating PREEMPT
support triggered a lot of bugs but the possibility was left open of
eventually enabling PREEMPT support. There are a couple of lines with
PREEMPT in them that differ between the Sid kernel and the Kubuntu
kernel here most that Debian sets CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE=y and Kubuntu
sets CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y (they are consectutive lines in the
config files).
Post by Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
I agree with Debian's stance on the firmware issue. Others may not, even if
they are similarly concerned with software freedoms in general.
So far it's not bothersome to me.

- Nate >>
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Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
2009-11-10 22:37:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nate Bargmann
Post by Boyd Stephen Smith Jr.
Post by Nate Bargmann
Some time ago
after discussion on this list I filed a Debian bug wishlist report
asking for a Debian kernel with the desktop support enabled. It was
closed as "will not fix".
Yes, pending a formal vote, firmware without source code will not be
added back to the Debian kernel, and such firmware will be removed as
bugs are filed against it.
Apples and oranges. I did not ask for firmware, in fact this was
before certain firmware was placed into non-free as I recall.
http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=375845
as the report. The actual closing report was that activating PREEMPT
support triggered a lot of bugs but the possibility was left open of
eventually enabling PREEMPT support. There are a couple of lines with
PREEMPT in them that differ between the Sid kernel and the Kubuntu
kernel here most that Debian sets CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE=y and Kubuntu
sets CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y (they are consectutive lines in the
config files).
I stand corrected.

CONFIG_PREEMPT_VOLUNTARY=y is what I used for kernels when I complied them
myself under Gentoo. It seems odd that Debian would choose to use
CONFIG_PREEMPT_NONE=y instead, but if it was buggy I can understand. (I did
not see any issues under Gentoo I was willing to blame on that setting.)

I disagree with boiling this setting down to the phrase "desktop support", but
enabling preemption of the kernel does generally make for a more pleasant
desktop experience.
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Scott
2009-11-11 02:16:02 UTC
Permalink
I installed a very minimal stable then dist-upgraded to testing and it
worked. That was the best way :).

Your friend,
Scott
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B. Alexander
2009-11-10 15:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
Hi,
I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.
I have been wanting to take a look at 9.10, but being a KDE user, I
have heard rumblings on the Interwebs that Kubuntu had the type of
problems to which you are eluding to in this post.

Have you tried apt-getting kubuntu-desktop on your Ubuntu install? Or
is it the same packages that you would get using kubuntu?
Post by Scott
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
I don't know what you mean by well-supported. I have been running it
for about 6 years, supporting kde3 on my family's machines and kde4 +
compiz on mine. When I have problems (which is rare), I either post
here, or I go to kde.org.

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Scott
2009-11-10 16:58:19 UTC
Permalink
I tried looking for a KDE Testing CD for i386 and I could not find any.
Actually, I can not find any i386 Testing CD's or DVD's on debian.org.
Haves testing drop 32bit support?

I tried a net install downloaded using Unetbootin, but there was no
option to install KDE. I could only select desktop which would install
Gnome. Should I install the standard system only then install KDE using
Apt-get?
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Xavier Vello
2009-11-10 17:08:48 UTC
Permalink
Hello
Post by Scott
I tried looking for a KDE Testing CD for i386 and I could not find any.
Actually, I can not find any i386 Testing CD's or DVD's on debian.org.
Haves testing drop 32bit support?
testing is not dropping i386 support at all, but weekly testing snapshot CDs
are not always on sync. The recommended way to install testing is using the
netinstall CD :
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/daily/arch-latest/i386/iso-
cd/debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso
Post by Scott
I tried a net install downloaded using Unetbootin, but there was no
option to install KDE. I could only select desktop which would install
Gnome. Should I install the standard system only then install KDE using
Apt-get?
Unfortunately, debian-installer installs GNOME by default and doesn't offer an
easy way to install KDE. If you are comfortable with apt-get, you should
install the base system without a graphical environment, then `apt-get install
xorg kde4-full` to install KDE and Xorg.


Regards
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Curt Howland
2009-11-10 17:42:47 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Xavier Vello
Unfortunately, debian-installer installs GNOME by default and
doesn't offer an easy way to install KDE. If you are comfortable
with apt-get, you should install the base system without a
graphical environment, then `apt-get install xorg kde4-full` to
install KDE and Xorg.
If I recall correctly, if one using the netinstall or bootable
business card, there is an "advanced" option for "install different
desktop" where KDE, LXDE, XFCE, etc, are listed.

It would be nice, in my opinion, if the default CD#1 were specified
as "GNOME", since the other CD#1 versions are noted as KDE, XFCE,
etc, in the repositories.

http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/

Curt-

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Facundo A
2009-11-10 17:59:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Curt Howland
It would be nice, in my opinion, if the default CD#1 were specified
as "GNOME", since the other CD#1 versions are noted as KDE, XFCE,
etc, in the repositories.
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/
Curt-
I think the same.
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Modestas Vainius
2009-11-10 18:12:13 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
Post by Xavier Vello
Post by Scott
I tried looking for a KDE Testing CD for i386 and I could not find any.
Actually, I can not find any i386 Testing CD's or DVD's on debian.org.
Haves testing drop 32bit support?
testing is not dropping i386 support at all, but weekly testing snapshot
CDs are not always on sync. The recommended way to install testing is
http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/daily-builds/daily/arch-latest/i386/iso-
cd/debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso
Actually, no. Using testing installer is like asking for trouble. Esp. for new
users if testing weekly installer does something (very) wrong, this will ruin
the first impression of Debian and just drive them somewhere else. First
impression IS very important.

As someone already said on this thread, the best and most reliable way is to
use stable netinstall CD to install the base OS, then change lenny to testing
in /etc/apt/sources.list, aptitude update && aptitude full-upgrade and finally
aptitude install kde-standard. Yeah, I know that it is not very user friendly,
but you would have to go through similar hacks to install KDE of daily
installer anyway since it prefers GNOME.
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Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
2009-11-10 17:09:07 UTC
Permalink
My installation step is like this:

1. Download stable netinstall CD
2. Install stable using netinstall as minimal possible
3. Change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing
4. Aptitude update
5. Aptitude full-upgrade
6. Aptitude install kde-minimal
Post by Scott
I tried looking for a KDE Testing CD for i386 and I could not find any.
Actually, I can not find any i386 Testing CD's or DVD's on debian.org.
Haves testing drop 32bit support?
I tried a net install downloaded using Unetbootin, but there was no option
to install KDE. I could only select desktop which would install Gnome.
Should I install the standard system only then install KDE using Apt-get?
--
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Scott
http://sgaming.ca
Sent to you from a Linux computer using Ubuntu Version 9.10
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Scott
2009-11-10 17:18:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
1. Download stable netinstall CD
2. Install stable using netinstall as minimal possible
3. Change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing
4. Aptitude update
5. Aptitude full-upgrade
6. Aptitude install kde-minimal
I will give this way a try. I tried the link Xavier gave in the
previous post and I just got a "404 File not found" error.
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Ana Guerrero
2009-11-10 20:16:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
1. Download stable netinstall CD
2. Install stable using netinstall as minimal possible
3. Change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing
4. Aptitude update
5. Aptitude full-upgrade
6. Aptitude install kde-minimal
I also would recommend this way to a new user, just one small comment:
instead of kde-minimal, you can install kde-standard, that is kde-minimal plus some
of the most common apps used. It is half-way between kde-minimal and kde-full.

Ana
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t***@googlemail.com
2009-11-10 21:38:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ana Guerrero
Post by Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
1. Download stable netinstall CD
2. Install stable using netinstall as minimal possible
3. Change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing
4. Aptitude update
5. Aptitude full-upgrade
6. Aptitude install kde-minimal
instead of kde-minimal, you can install kde-standard, that is kde-minimal plus some
of the most common apps used. It is half-way between kde-minimal and kde-full.
Ana
Just a bit of warning here, the migration "stable > testing" can be
tricky right now, with grub > grub2 (available for stable, but not the
default), boot sequence change (insserv), impossibility to format as
ext4 from Lenny installer, very likely devices names change with the
jump in kernel version...
Unfortunately while there is an option to install kde as the default
desktop in Squeeze netinstall cd, those testing d-i images are somewhat
buggy right now, the graphical install didn't even come up during my
latest install which was today, with a 8th of November netinstall amd64
image ... It did work in "expert" text mode though, but only wired
because it failed to configure my wireless card (which is a basic ath5k
compatible card).

Right now it's not so easy to install Debian Squeeze.
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Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
2009-11-11 12:56:16 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Ana for the info.

I usually use kde-minimal which is sufficient to my usage. I will promote
the kde-standard package if someone ask in the future.
Post by Ana Guerrero
Post by Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
1. Download stable netinstall CD
2. Install stable using netinstall as minimal possible
3. Change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing
4. Aptitude update
5. Aptitude full-upgrade
6. Aptitude install kde-minimal
instead of kde-minimal, you can install kde-standard, that is kde-minimal plus some
of the most common apps used. It is half-way between kde-minimal and kde-full.
Ana
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Allen
2009-11-14 15:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sharuzzaman Ahmat Raslan
1. Download stable netinstall CD
2. Install stable using netinstall as minimal possible
3. Change /etc/apt/sources.list to point to testing
4. Aptitude update
5. Aptitude full-upgrade
6. Aptitude install kde-minimal
I got KDE like this:

After the netinstall was done (did a fairly bare bones install so I
could make it exactly what I wanted) I did this:

apt-get update && apt-get install kde

After that, I loaded KDE 3.5 since I didn't want 4, and I'm using it
now.
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Manolete, ese artista...
2009-11-10 18:46:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Scott
My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
KDE 4 is very stable on Debian, as stable as KDE is at this moment... But think that Debian is not *buntu and they don't have dozens of people working full time on the distro, so some things -packaging very new stuff, for example- work a bit slower than in other distros with "professional" mantainers like *buntu, Suse, Fedora, etc. So if you switch be patient and don't get frustrated.
On the other hand, even if Kubuntu is more or less as fast packaging new KDE releases and stuff as Suse, the results... well... maybe I've had bad luck when trying it, but it behaved rather disastrously and I rapidly rebooted to my safe Debian home. So if you can deal with some delays I think you will be very satisfied with Debian.

About support, my impression is that, regarding to mail lists, Debian's one isn't as centralized as Kubuntu-users list, where you can ask for help independently of the software that causes you problems; so even if you ask in any of the general debian-user lists is rather probable that you won't get a satisfying response or even no response at all, and you will have to look for a more specific list.
It's a bit "balls breaker" but nobody said Debian were perfect, ;p.


Regards.
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Luis Tabera
2009-11-10 19:04:46 UTC
Permalink
Asunto: Re: KDE Support in Debian
Fecha: martes, 10 de noviembre, 2009 19:46
    My question here is KDE well
documented and stable on Debian?  I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for
Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
Sorry, sent it to a personal mail address...

I would say yes. In the official stable Debian release the kde desktop is the solid rock kde 3.5.9 If you do not care to loose a little bit of stability you can try Debian testing with kde 4.3 at the moment. I would say that it is as stable as kde is now.

Precisely I switched to Debian because I fell that, for most packages, the packaging policy really cares about releasing quality software instead of the newest still broken packages. Both approaches are needed, solid rock software for production environments but also brand new software that allows people to experiment and collaborate finding bugs. You just have to look for your equilibrium.

I am personaly very happy with the debian kde package team.
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Scott
2009-11-10 03:58:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I have been contemplating the idea of switching from Ubuntu to Debian.
Even though I like KDE better I use Gnome on Ubuntu. The reason why I
use Ubuntu (With Gnome) and not Kubuntu (With KDE) is that I don't like
how it is more difficult to find help specific to Kubuntu and also
because Kubuntu is simply not as well put together as Ubuntu. There is
simply much more development and documentation specific to Gnome in Ubuntu.

My question here is KDE well documented and stable on Debian? I
understand that Gnome is also the default desktop for Debian, but is KDE
well supported?
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